Springtails and dart frog toxin

JimO · #1 (**permalink**) 08-27-2010, 05:56 PM

I got my first springtail cultures recently and was told to feed them mushroom caps, among other things. This got me thinking. I wonder if it is possible that toxins from the fungi that springtails feed on could be a source of dendrobates toxins. Is anyone aware of studies done on the matter?

rcteem · #2 (**permalink**) 08-27-2010, 09:53 PM

The only one ive seen it mites

Enlightened Rogue · #3 (**permalink**) 08-29-2010, 10:48 PM

I only feed yeast or fish flakes and my cultures are swarming.

John

Enlightened Rogue · #4 (**permalink**) 08-29-2010, 11:54 PM

Sorry time ran out for an edit... after re-reading your question I found I mis-understood what you were saying.

John

earthfrog · #5 (**permalink**) 09-01-2010, 05:34 AM

This is a good read---doesn't pertain to darts, but outlines the toxic effects of mushrooms.
Personally, I can't think that it would cause a great deal of harm given the frogs' physiology, but it's always possible. If you are unsure, you can feed one to them that is edible for us.
I have random orange mushrooms that live and die in my tank, and springtails and isopods eat them, and they are in with the frogs...so far no observable effects..
Mycotoxins

MichelleSG · #6 (**permalink**) 09-01-2010, 01:28 PM

Are we talking about grocery bought mushrooms or collected outside? I would think that the chances of the toxins being in the farm raised mushrooms to be less since the vectors are better controlled. Of course I don't know the specifics of their growing so I could be totally off here. There are many who feed shrooms and I would think we'd be seeing more incidence of the disease if it were a problem.

Bcs TX · #7 (**permalink**) 09-01-2010, 07:28 PM

I feed the store bought white mushrooms to my springtails but I wash the heck out of the shrooms. They grow them on well....chicken poop.
Not sure I would want critters from that in my Viv's.

earthfrog · #8 (**permalink**) 09-01-2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bcs TX

I feed the store bought white mushrooms to my springtails but I wash the heck out of the shrooms. They grow them on well....chicken poop.
Not sure I would want critters from that in my Viv's.

EW---heat them at 150 for 10 minutes before use...

JimO · #9 (**permalink**) 09-02-2010, 05:01 AM

My original post probably wasn't very clear. I was just wondering if any studies have been done on wild springtails in, say, D. terrilibis habitat to see if the springtails accumulate toxins from fungi that could then be passed on to the frogs.

I also just realized what a bonehead I am. When someone suggested that I feed the springtails mushrooms, I was going into the yard and grabbing some common (and probably highly toxic) mushrooms. The springtails are thriving, but now I am wondering if I should be feeding them (the springtails) to the frogs.

Tomorrow I'm buying some edible shrooms - Duh.

I'm going to do some research and see if I can find any articles on the subject. I'd also like to compare the toxins found in fungi to those found in dart frogs. There is a good chapter in "Professional Breeder Series: Poison Frogs" by W. Schmidt and F.W. Henkel regarding dendrobatid toxins.

earthfrog · #10 (**permalink**) 09-02-2010, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimO

My original post probably wasn't very clear. I was just wondering if any studies have been done on wild springtails in, say, D. terrilibis habitat to see if the springtails accumulate toxins from fungi that could then be passed on to the frogs.

I also just realized what a bonehead I am. When someone suggested that I feed the springtails mushrooms, I was going into the yard and grabbing some common (and probably highly toxic) mushrooms. The springtails are thriving, but now I am wondering if I should be feeding them (the springtails) to the frogs.

Tomorrow I'm buying some edible shrooms - Duh.

I'm going to do some research and see if I can find any articles on the subject. I'd also like to compare the toxins found in fungi to those found in dart frogs. There is a good chapter in "Professional Breeder Series: Poison Frogs" by W. Schmidt and F.W. Henkel regarding dendrobatid toxins.

I think your post was perfectly clear. It's just that no one has produced what you're looking for yet.
It may be harmless, it may not---personally, I tend to think that it would not be a issue given that the frogs eat similar bugs in the wild who fed on similar items...but giving them insects that strictly feed on the mushrooms may have an effect on them which may be subtle or pronounced.