Feeding mealworms to Darts?

[Crazy frog]

Anyone try feeding their adult full grown Phyllobates Terribilis or Bicolor with an medium size newly molted mealworms...will they be able to eat them?
Will there be any problem feeding them small and medium size mealworms?

thks

[Rain_Frog]

I feed tincs and mantellas small mealworms all the time. I'm sure terribilis would enjoy them. All that stuff about chitin or mealworms chewing holes through stomachs is a myth.

However, sometimes the mealworms thrash a bit that can make it difficult for a frog to swallow-- but that's more of a problem if they're too large.

[Crazy frog]

Originally Posted by Rain_Frog

I feed tincs and mantellas small mealworms all the time. I'm sure terribilis would enjoy them. All that stuff about chitin or mealworms chewing holes through stomachs is a myth.

However, sometimes the mealworms thrash a bit that can make it difficult for a frog to swallow-- but that's more of a problem if they're too large.

Great to heard that...thks for the reply!

[RentaPig311]

Ii tried feeding my guys meal worms and soldier grubs. They just weren't interested.

[andyrawrs]

Originally Posted by Rain_Frog

All that stuff about chitin or mealworms chewing holes through stomachs is a myth.

However, sometimes the mealworms thrash a bit that can make it difficult for a frog to swallow-- but that's more of a problem if they're too large.

I'm sure terribillis can take mealies. I don't recall if they bite, but even if they did it wouldn't be much of a big deal. Just to clarify though, although it might not be a nuisance in our hobby it is not accurate to say that "that stuff about chitin...is a myth" because it isn't. The chewing holes thing almost certainly is a myth though. The chitin issue probably wouldn't affect our hobby but the bearded dragon community generally looks down upon feeding baby beardies with mealworms.

I second that the mealies will thrash though

Andy

[Ed]

Originally Posted by andyrawrs

I'm sure terribillis can take mealies. I don't recall if they bite, but even if they did it wouldn't be much of a big deal. Just to clarify though, although it might not be a nuisance in our hobby it is not accurate to say that "that stuff about chitin...is a myth" because it isn't. The chewing holes thing almost certainly is a myth though. The chitin issue probably wouldn't affect our hobby but the bearded dragon community generally looks down upon feeding baby beardies with mealworms.

I second that the mealies will thrash though

Andy

A study demonstrated that in Sceloperous, that growth was greater in lizards fed mealworms as compared to crickets. Part of the reason is that the amount of protien available in chitin was grossly underestimated for a long time. It is now known to be as much as 7 times greater than was once estimated....

ED

[andyrawrs]

Originally Posted by Ed

A study demonstrated that in Sceloperous, that growth was greater in lizards fed mealworms as compared to crickets. Part of the reason is that the amount of protien available in chitin was grossly underestimated for a long time. It is now known to be as much as 7 times greater than was once estimated....

ED

Ed, the issue I addressed above was the problem with impaction that some keepers of bearded dragons experienced a few years back. This is the argument of whether not the metabolization of chitin in Pagona vitticeps is possible. I do not doubt the information divulged by the research on Sceloperous lizards, but the fact remains that in the past some bearded dragon users expressed difficulty in using mealworms as feeders with young bearded dragons likely due to incapacity to metabolize chitin. Thus, the issue was that chitin was harmful to young bearded dragons (possibly); this may or may not be the case in dendrobatid husbandry.


Frankly speaking however, it is much more likely that mechanical error is to blame for the impaction events. I agree with the sentiments expressed here previously; I am simply stating that there may be counter-evidence to the claim that the "chitin issue" is a myth.

Andy

[Link3898]

so its myth then that meal worms can chew their way out of frogs? huh... i have never fed them to anything that will swallow them whole without cutting the head off first... reason being... when i was 15 i had a pair of green toads (Bufo debilis) that we had caught in south eastern colorado. well we had them for about a week when petsmart ran out of crickets so we gave em meal worms.. the next morning both toads were dead and there were meal worms crawling out of their sides... myth? i duno.... maybe i just had really bad luck that both toads somehow died the same night and the meal worms maybe crawled back out their mouths then began eating on their skin from the outside?? no idea...

[Ed]

Originally Posted by andyrawrs

Ed, the issue I addressed above was the problem with impaction that some keepers of bearded dragons experienced a few years back. This is the argument of whether not the metabolization of chitin in Pagona vitticeps is possible. I do not doubt the information divulged by the research on Sceloperous lizards, but the fact remains that in the past some bearded dragon users expressed difficulty in using mealworms as feeders with young bearded dragons likely due to incapacity to metabolize chitin. Thus, the issue was that chitin was harmful to young bearded dragons (possibly); this may or may not be the case in dendrobatid husbandry.


Frankly speaking however, it is much more likely that mechanical error is to blame for the impaction events. I agree with the sentiments expressed here previously; I am simply stating that there may be counter-evidence to the claim that the "chitin issue" is a myth.

Andy

Hi Andy,

I don't have access to a pdf of the article I referenced above but here is a link to the abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...20175/abstract...

Outside of the study done on Sceloperous, chitin has been shown to be as much as 7 times more digestiable than was once commonly thought in general due to a underestimation of the amount of digestiable protien in the "chitin" portion of the insect. Mealworms actually contain a greater amount of digestiable material than is commonly believed.

I would have to go back and review the literature but I think I remember a method of impaction due to gastric overload where the animal consumes more food than they can easily handle which can result in impactions. The interesting thing about the Sceloperous study is that the lizards could consume a lower amount of mealworms and achieve a better growth rate than that seen in those fed crickets.

Ed

[Ed]

Originally Posted by Link3898

so its myth then that meal worms can chew their way out of frogs? huh... i have never fed them to anything that will swallow them whole without cutting the head off first... reason being... when i was 15 i had a pair of green toads (Bufo debilis) that we had caught in south eastern colorado. well we had them for about a week when petsmart ran out of crickets so we gave em meal worms.. the next morning both toads were dead and there were meal worms crawling out of their sides... myth? i duno.... maybe i just had really bad luck that both toads somehow died the same night and the meal worms maybe crawled back out their mouths then began eating on their skin from the outside?? no idea...

There are multiple potential causes of deaths in animals such as the gastric impaction.. if the toads did not consume all of the mealworms, the leftover mealworms will scavenge the corpses of dead animals. This is where the myth is believed to have started. In several reviews of mealworms, the authors were unable to locate any documented cases of mealworms chewing thier way out of a consuming animal.

Ed