Yay first tad! - Page 4

M_Rybecky · #31 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 01:56 AM

I think that if you would like to continue breeding your frogs you should choose one and post it in the "trading post" section of this forum. You can see if anyone is willing to trade it for a mate for your other frog. Then you will have frogs that you can sell as you stated was your intension in your first post in this thread.

R1ch13 · #32 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 02:49 AM

I totally agree with what M_Rybecky has just said.

Thats a cracking idea.

There are always going to be debates on the mixing of locales/species, and almost 100% of the members on here are apposed to it for many many reasons.

There is a plentiful amount of info on the mixing of darts on this forum, I don't understand how you haven't found any yet?

It really really isn't the way to go, you aren't doing the frogs any favours, or yourself.

We are all in it for the frogs, there are tonnes of people trying to pair up lone frogs at any given time, and will go to any lengths to get the exact same locale, from the exact same import dates etc, to keep everything as pure as can be.

If everyone settled for the closest look alike, the hobby would slowly but surely be doomed.

As you say, they are your frogs for you to do whatever you like with, but as I am sure you are aware now, there is no place for mixing in the hobby in all of our minds, and you will get a lot of opposition when you start a thread about your new hybrid tad.

Good luck with it anyhow, just don't be passing the offspring around to ANYBODY else but yourself.

Nature does it best.
Richie

SmackoftheGods · #33 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 02:54 AM

puddles,

Do what you want. Say what you want. Believe what you want. Be as stubborn as you want. Truth be told, you might just be right. There may be no existential reason for us to wish to maintian pure bloodlines, there may exist no reason for us to be frustrated with you should you decide to try to sell you mixed froglet. All that might be true, but it's equally true that an overwhelming majority of the hobby believes this to be bastardizing frogs. And in the end, whether or not you understand those reasons doesn't matter because it's not going to change how we feel about the frog you created.

In the end you've expressed a desire to sell frogs. If you mix frogs and try to sell the offspring someone who knows anything about the hobby will not buy them from you if you're upfront about where they came from. You've joined a public forum to connect with people who have a similar passion that you do, but by breeding mixed frogs you're going to find it very difficult to connect with many people on this board. Understanding the reasons behind these facts doesn't really matter because understanding isn't going to change anything, what matters is that those are the facts. You can either continue doing what you're doing and find yourself both isolated and unable to meet your goals (going pro, or even selling a single froglet), or you can listen to what people are telling you and fix what you're doing. Personally, I really don't care which you choose, the choice is _yours_ to make.

I'm sure that doesn't really answer any of your questions, but I've had this conversation enough times to think that if I gave you a real answer you probably wouldn't listen to it. If you do a search on the board you'll find plenty of threads about mixing species _and_ same species different localities. I know because I've been a part of plenty of them. You can take that as rude if you want, but it's not meant as rude, it's just a fact.

Arrynia · #34 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M_Rybecky

I think that if you would like to continue breeding your frogs you should choose one and post it in the "trading post" section of this forum. You can see if anyone is willing to trade it for a mate for your other frog. Then you will have frogs that you can sell as you stated was your intension in your first post in this thread.

But that's too easy...it is obvious we are dealing with someone that just wants to stir up a ruckus and 'attempt' to change the way we maintain this hobby. Puddles is against overwhelming odds here and will probably be out of the hobby in a few months. Let's just hope his arautus don't make it into anyone elses hands.

Woodsman · #35 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 04:30 AM

Congratulations on the tad. I remember my first breeding with great fondness. It's sad that some other hobbyists seem set on raining on your little parade, but I think you should see this as a learning opportunity. There are bullies everywhere and you eventually learn to stand up to them.

I keep mixed morph tintorius in my collection and have been up front about this from the begining. They are MY frogs and are available for viewing at my home anytime (aka, I have nothing to hide). If someone has a problem with that, it really is their problem (not mine). I know I am a good hobbyist.

Good luck with the tad, Richard.

puddles · #36 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 04:52 AM

Hey guys, I'll just say one last thing in this thread.

First, thanks for all of your opinions, both discouraging and encouraging. I appreciate your passion and honesty.

I understand that you want to maintain a pure and unadulterated gene pool in what is one of the most fantastic hobbies in the world. Many people have worked hard for years to get where we are now and it would sure suck to be one of the people to screw it up for everyone. I know there is no way i can convince you with 100% certainty that my hybrid(s) will not recirculate, but if it helps i will at least reassure you once again that i am trustworthy and i will never seek to gain financially from selling crossbred animals. I have intimate ties to a research institute that will no doubt take these animals on permanent breeding ban should misfortune befall me.

Don't let your passions die- but maybe be a bit nicer to the next clueless bloke :-) (even if they are against overwhelming odds at lasting more than a few months)
You never know who will turn out to be the next Patrick Nabors.

-Andrew

DCreptiles · #37 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 05:17 AM

Congrats puddles on your breeding its always exciting to get your first eggs... i came into this frog hobby from the reptile hobby where crossing morphs and localitys was perfectly fine creating new desired "designer" morphs people would all go crazy for. i came into this hobby and was quickly taken under the wing by some locals and they showed me the good practices of this fine hobby... although i do not own any mixed tanks or cross bred frogs i firmly believe that they are your frogs and you should do as you please with them.. and if you feel like you did nothing wrong and would like to post your frogs for then by all means do so.. and who ever purchases from you is their choice just always be honest of your cross breeds and keep detailed records.. but please understand that this hobby has its do's and donts like all hobbys and its up to you to follow or not.

these people that have all posted happen to all be good people in the hobby and are just simply trying to point you in the right direction to make your frogging expierence a little more easier. by adopting their practices you will be able to buy sell and trade with your fellow froggers with ease and create a good rep for your self.

Richard does keep cross bred Tincs and there was a huge issue about it.. and to spite what people may think of him he happens to be a great keeper and breeder of tincs and happens to know a great deal about his frogs. With his hand in keeping cross breeds hes still able to function in this hobby.. so my advice to you is to do what you feel is right i just hope you make a responsible choice. It wouldnt be the end of the world to propperly pair your auratus up and start producing pure offspring and get the full expierence of this hobby.

hope you found this helpful. sorry for any typos its late and im tired. enjoy.

McBobs · #38 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 09:59 AM

Hey everyone! After PM'ing back and forth with puddles, I can see where he is coming from.

At first, he was just excited to have found his first clutch of baby dart frogs (whether it was crossbred or not). After finding this website and it's wealth of information, sharing his recent discovery seemed like the logical choice. A lot of people, INCLUDING ME, jumped the gun and kinda chewed some butt for another hobbiest wishing to sell a froglet that was undesirable to the hobby.

After a few unkind words and then immediate apologies, puddles understands where the majority of the hobby stands and agrees with the rest of us that selling a crossbred froglet would be undesirable. Rearing a tadpole to froglet is invaluable experience (I think we can all agree on that) and after puddles has morphed his first froglet, breeding true to species and localities is next on his list. No selling of crossbred froglets at all.

I think we can set this issue to rest and if Andrew reads this, I think he'll agree.

-Matt

yumpster · #39 (**permalink**) 03-20-2010, 08:48 PM

I honestly have no problem with people doing whatever they want within the walls of their own home. I'm not going to discourage you for what you have done, but I am going to put it in perspective for you. Perhaps your actions will have no ill consequence on the hobby, but what happens when your frogs keep breeding and you end up with 50 mixed frogs that nobody will buy. You will have no choice but to either keep expanding size of vivariums to accommodate them, or you will have to start killing them which. In the end, my real problem with mixing frogs isn't that its bad for the hobby. My concern is that otherwise healthy frogs will have to be killed off because you will no longer be able to care for the growing numbers of them. Please don't take this as rude, it is just my opinion on the subject.

DCreptiles · #40 (**permalink**) 03-21-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yumpster

I honestly have no problem with people doing whatever they want within the walls of their own home. I'm not going to discourage you for what you have done, but I am going to put it in perspective for you. Perhaps your actions will have no ill consequence on the hobby, but what happens when your frogs keep breeding and you end up with 50 mixed frogs that nobody will buy. You will have no choice but to either keep expanding size of vivariums to accommodate them, or you will have to start killing them which. In the end, my real problem with mixing frogs isn't that its bad for the hobby. My concern is that otherwise healthy frogs will have to be killed off because you will no longer be able to care for the growing numbers of them. Please don't take this as rude, it is just my opinion on the subject.

im going to have to say i disagree... i dont think killing a healthy frog is a option for ANY of us regaurdless if its a cross breed or not... and 2 i firmly believe there are people on and off the board that WILL purchase what we call "undesired" frogs. within this past year i can say i have come across many photos of "accidental" cross breeds on and off the board and i will say a majority of them are actually very cool looking with nice color and pattern. and i cant say i was never tempted to purchase them.

its his first tad.. and the frogs first time breeding.. i doubt even by next yr he will have 50 healthy froglets. so i dont think there is anything to worry about especially if he understands the boards views on what he is doing.. lets just nicely educate him and point him in the right direction and welcome a fellow frogger to the hobby