i posted this on another forum and was directed here
"i will be keeping dart frogs in the very near future and plan to have some vivs built for them prob 3 or 4 connected together drilled with false bottoms with plenty of plants
i cant decide yet what species i want to start with but it will prob be dendrobates tinc oyapok then i will start with the thumb nails
my first questions are, does it matter if the females can see each other through the glass?
and i really dont understand what people mean when they say a more difficult species of thumb nail, as they tend not to say what it is that makes them harder to keep, its just that they are.
please explain
cheers"
so if some one could answer the above i would be very gratefull
Well I'm not terribly experienced with tincs or thumbnails, but I think I can shed a little bit of light on the subject for you.
Yes, It makes a difference if females can see each other through the glass. They won't be able to cause physical harm, but they will still stress each other out. Stress is a big killer of frogs. Whatever you use for your background, just use it on the sides too and that should solve the problem.
Thumbnails have varying difficulties due to a number of things. I only know a few basics, and I'm sure others will chime in to fill you in on the rest. Some thumbnails are more picky eaters than others. Some are classified as more difficult to care for due to the fragility of new born tads and froglets. And some are recommended for advanced hobbyists because they are all of the above plus more, and any number of things can cause them to become ill and/or die. Generally speaking, if you aim for a starter thumbnail that's easier to care for, you shouldn't have any problems. They are mostly treated the same as most other darts, just more delicately.
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Don't try to persuade me. I'm a frogger. We are stubborn.
First yes it does matter if frogs can see each other, not only females but all frogs.
Many aspecs come into play but mainly stress and territorialism.
You may not be able to breed any of your frogs if they see each other for the above reasons, not to mention possible death due to stress.
Now thumbnails themselves in general are advanced care compared to tincs or other large frogs because of the reasons that they are much much much smaller. Which means that they are much faster, much easier to lose, fit into any little gap available ect... They are also much less tolerant to temperature and humidity extremes.
They require proper food and because they are smaller can not go as long without food as the larger fatter frogs. Thus being said they are less forgiving to begginer mistakes.
Does that mean you cannot properly take care of thumbs, not true. There is many species of "begginner" care thumbnails that are easier then the other thumbs to care for.
Try to stay away from Oophaga as they are obligated egg feeders and require advanced care, as well as ephidobates live in different conditions as most other frogs although said they can adapt well, they should still be left to advanced keepers.
So being said, thumbs are fine to start if your prepared and got proper research done, some do and some don't.
Vents, imi's, variabilis are all good thumbs and fun thumbs for starters I'd say.
Hope it helps!
Best of luck.
Best way to learn is research and ask questions on what you've read.
Which is what you did
Oyapok are great looking tincs! They are by far one of my favorite tincs as well.
Other great large frogs are leucs, galacts, auratus and azureus(also a tinc).
Those are all great starters and just because they are labeled as "starters" doesn't make them any less exiting as the "advanced" frogs.
In my opinion leucs can't be topped if you want bold, beautiful, and loud frogs
Just know that if you get a oyapok tinc, they do best in pairs, when kept in groups female territorialism can happen, just be prepared to split them up if need be and you can do fine, many people raise them in groups no problem, most success happens with sibilings who have been raised together rather then introducing two stranger female tincs.
the only problem i am going to have is that the frogs will be in my bedroom so i will have yet another noisy pet as i hear clacking all night from my hermit crabs, clicking from my seahorses having their evening meals and soon frogs to chrip all night
Dart frogs are diurnal, they are out and about during the day and they tuck away to sleep at night. Mine usually head to their sleeping spots about an hour before it's lights out. You only occasionally hear them after lights out or before sun-up in the morning.
Also, tincs have a very quiet call and you probably won't hear them anyway. Some of the louder frogs (leucs, terribs, etc), it's not actually the typical frog chirp (like tree frogs), it's more of a trill like a bird. The call is very pleasant and I for one (along with most pdf keepers) love the call. Some of my frog choices have been based on wanting a very vocal species.
I'm not sure I agree with the idea that the females being able to see one another is going to be a significant enough stressor in frogs set up in seperate tanks where they can't access one another. While it is true stress can kill frogs, I think too many things have been passed on anecdotally with no direct supportive evidence other than there was aggression the frogs died it was due to stress from the aggression... as typically no necropsies were performed to identify any underlying causes, this is pure speculation...
Also I have signficant doubts that female thumbnails and female tinctorius are going to attempt to interact through the glass. One of the things to consider is that in those species that female to female aggression, the females are not defending a territory but a resource such as a egg deposition site and a calling male.
As a purely anecdotal observation, if this was true then a number of larger breeders that have tanks next to one another without any visual barriers between the tanks should have seen huge amounts of "death due to stress from aggression" between the enclosures.....
There is already a lot of voodoo in this hobby without creating even more.....
just to add to the list
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