Am I right for pdf's??

[killgorian]

P. terribilis do require you to culture their food--you can't get around this--they are eating machines and you will still need to culture fruit flies as a staple, or obtain pinhead crickets, field plankton and other stuff for them to eat year around, or both. The first thing P. terribilis learn after you obtain them, is who the "Food God" is, and where the manna is about descend from heaven. This is part of their charm. They are among the most fearless of all darts.

I knew I wasnt done researching. :wink:

I have an 18" exo-terra I just picked up and I am researching lighting, substrate, background and water features atm. I wanted semi exotic plants from the frogs natural habitat, however I decided it might be wiser to start off with easier plants that took less research to raise, then if things went well, upgrade to a 29 gallon I have on standby. I figure the simpler I make it, the more I can focus on the frogs themselves.

Which reminds me, Ive read varying studies on the uv requirements for frogs in general but I wondered if anyone knew about terribilis in general. They say it's not essential, and that being ground dwellers, they dont get alot anyway, but I wondered if I should get a 26 watt Tropical Terrarium Lamp to go along with a full spectrum?

[bbrock]

I haven't kept terribilis myself but mention this only to prod those with experience to chime in. But several experienced terribilis keepers have indicated they are a bit more touchy than other Phyllobates, and perhaps more susceptible to skin infections. The do appear to be more difficult to breed. So you might want to consider Phyllobates bicolor or Phyllobates vittatus instead. Bicolor are very similar to terribilis in appearance, and both are easy to keep and breed.

As for UV. True that it is not essential. False that just because they are forest floor dwellers that they get little exposure in the wild. I'm a proponent of UV, but for beginning with PDF, I don't recommend it. Just keep it simple and save the non-essential stuff for when your obsession is out of control like ours.

I'll chime in about the time required. I spend about 30 minutes per week total to maintain 8 vivs. including making food cultures. Everything else is just milking it for my own enjoyment.

[slaytonp]

I've experienced only one problem with P. terribilis in the past, and that is they seem to be more sensitive to overheating than other darts I keep. You will need to be sure that you are able to keep the tank temperatures below 80 degrees, preferrably somewhat cooler. During a heat wave a few years ago, mine all experienced a kind of "wasting away" syndrome, stopped eating, and began to hide in the foliage. While I'm not 100% sure this was the cause, there seemed to be a direct relationship to the heat, which got up to 85 or so in the tank on a daily basis for some time. (I don't have central air conditioning of any sort.) After solving the over-heating problem, I've noticed no skin lesions or other disease problems.

The main purpose of UV is providing a source of D vitamins for calcium utilization, although as Brent has pointed out, there are other advantages as well. However, if you supplement with the calcium/D3 dusting of the food, plus other vitamins (Rep-Cal with D3 + Herptivite, for instance) it is not absolutely essential. It is technically challenging to install an efficient UV light system in small vivariums, since glass filters out UV, so you can't merely put it on top of the tank as can be done with other lighting. I believe there are some acrylics that allow UV to penetrate, however. My frogs have gotten along without it for 10 years without apparent problems, since I'm somewhat "technically challenged" myself, so need to keep things as simple as possible.

[killgorian]

But several experienced terribilis keepers have indicated they are a bit more touchy than other Phyllobates, and perhaps more susceptible to skin infections. The do appear to be more difficult to breed.

Actually the difficulty in breeding might be a bonus to me, as I'd like to minimize any "accidents" that would force me to upgrade my tank before I'm ready. I'm telling myself that the second one will be more elaborate. :wink:

I've experienced only one problem with P. terribilis in the past, and that is they seem to be more sensitive to overheating than other darts I keep. You will need to be sure that you are able to keep the tank temperatures below 80 degrees, preferrably somewhat cooler.

Thats actually a plus as well, as I plan to have my viv near an ac and in the winter my house tends to be a bit chilly. I did read about that and it appears they are terribly sensitive to higher levels of heat. I have plans to get a humidity/temperature gauge that keeps logs so I can readjust in the summer according to how high the temperatures get. My immediate thought is a water feature might help to cool things down a bit and while I read cpu fans arent good for cooling, I thought a case fan on the hood pointing upwards might draw some of the heat out if it became an issue.

[DenZ0r]

I think breeding would be a natural extension, but I wouldn't try that for quite some time. It seems like something that might be better left to experts.

Actually the difficulty in breeding might be a bonus to me, as I'd like to minimize any "accidents" that would force me to upgrade my tank before I'm ready. I'm telling myself that the second one will be more elaborate.

Well I thought about this also. BUT believe me once you have you're first frogs and they are settled and you have perfectioned youre viv and so you ran out of work, you can't wait to get them to breed.

Really I would really love to see eggs! I would love to be bussy with tads and froglets and setting up new gow-out tanks. This where NOT my thought when I first started with frogs.

So maybe you are diffrent but keep in mind there is that hazard of infection

GL,

Dennis