Why are hybrids bad? 'Oi vay the hybrids already'

Not very new to darts, but new to breeding them, and i have seen some posts and pics of hybrids. So far, many have said that they are bad. I saw a pic of one very cool one, but people were "dissapointed" to hear that it was a hybrid. Whats wrong w/ them?

[Onagro]

Most people want to keep the bloodlines to the "species" of dart frogs pure due to the fact that wild populations are dealing with massive habitat loss and the expansion of chythrid (sp?). Also, there is some worry that some seller won't tell someone they are buying a hybrid and pass it off as a new morph.

I've noticed on here that some people react the same way to albino dart frogs believing they are created by hybridilizaton. Don't worry, they are not.

Note: I used species like that because the morphs are variations of one species not something entirely different. A Cobalt tinctorius and a matecho tinctorius are still the same species, it's just not recommend to let them breed together. It's kind of like that purebred dog stuff with the kennel clubs.

[audioandroid]

here's a good way to put it....

just like lions and tigers darts are endangered.

so if both lions and tigers go extinct in the wild.

and captive bred animals are cross bred and all we have left in captivity are ligers.

we now have no tigers or lions left.

[sbreland]

Originally Posted by audioandroid

here's a good way to put it....

just like lions and tigers darts are endangered.

so if both lions and tigers go extinct in the wild.

and captive bred animals are cross bred and all we have left in captivity are ligers.

we now have not a single existing tiger or lion.

Ligers aren't all bad... They have extra magical powers. Napoleon told me so..

[MJ]

I suggest trying the Search button at the top of each page here.

First select search then type "hybrid" in the search field next spend hours reading all the long winded 4 page long threads on hybrids.

[zaroba]

Originally Posted by audioandroid

here's a good way to put it....

just like lions and tigers darts are endangered.

so if both lions and tigers go extinct in the wild.

and captive bred animals are cross bred and all we have left in captivity are ligers.

we now have no tigers or lions left.

good point
but like in the dart frog community, thier would be those still interested in keeping lions and tigers and would thus be breeding them still.

i also don't see what the big deal is.
from what i have learned, we as hobbiests don't rerelease our frogs into the wild anyway over threat of introducing new parasites etc. so if they did go extinct in the wild, they'd still be around in captivity, like lions and tigers would still be bred by zoos to keep them around.

a way around the whole misinformation thing is already around, thiers that dart frog registry site thats being developed, and thisers sites like this and honest, respected breeders. as long as the people who want to keep the lines pure will still sell pure bred frogs. people who only want pure bred frogs could onjly buy from people that only sell pure bred frogs.

as the dart frog hobbist community grows, hybrids will happen. not everybody who owns a dart frog will be a member of this site, nor will they care about keeping lines pure, some will only care about having pretty frogs, others will care about making money because new frogs = higher prices due to uniqueness and some people need to make more money to pay bills etc (looking threw the 'whats your job' thread, it seems alot of the people here have enough money to burn and thus look at negativly at the money making side not caring about us poorer folk with dead end jobs and high bills). eventually the dart community WILL get as wide spread as the gecko and python community. thiers no stopping it.


as for searching threw the posts to find the long winded posts about hybrids,
for the most part, they can be summed up into:
"keep the lines pure because we don't want the hobby ending up like the gecko and python hobby" and "its unethical" (with long speeches as to why the person believes so)



p.s. don't take this post offensively, i'm just stating what i've seen and stating things that will obviously happen due to selfishness of people

[Grassypeak]

One other thing to consider, is that fertility can be an issue, even between morphs. Morphs are kept separate because deep down we do not know where to draw the species line. If someone crosses two morphs and doesn’t pass on the breeding information, the frogs may be misidentified later on, and unintentionally bred to a true morph. If you think that this is all to hypothetical, consider how often we see posts requesting the ID of a frog. One person says, "it looks like a sip". “No”, another responds, “it’s a New River”. Then a third chimes in, “ I think it is just a young azureus”. The person asking is left to decide what to do, and if he breeds the frog in question to an azureus, there may be fertility issues down the line. No, fertility issues do not always show up in the next generation. Sometimes it takes a few generations before problems start. The last thing we all need is problems with a species that can not be reimported

Just my thoughts.

[Vicky Rut]

I'm brand new to the hobby and I personally feel very
strongly about keeping things safe, though it may not be on my
plan to breed darts I know for sure that if I will I wouldn't mix species or morphs
for the life of me (and I have a dead end job and a very low income)

Some things just don't have a pricetag ops:
If more people start thinking/feeling it is okay to mix more people
will mix, each induvidual that breeds darts counts. Thats why it is
important to keep educating people about it.

Note on the ligers, they are unfertile, can not breed at all, the same goes
for hybrid darts as Grassypeak mentioned, it just happens a few generations later
Then what? No lions, no tigers and no Ligers?

I also recomend reading the search on hybrid, I did, had lots of fun :mrgreen:
just my 2 cents

[Dendrobait]

Originally Posted by Grassypeak

Sometimes it takes a few generations before problems start. The last thing we all need is problems with a species that can not be reimported

Just my thoughts.

Hybrid breakdown. Has this been documented in darts?

[Dendrobait]

Originally Posted by Grassypeak

Sometimes it takes a few generations before problems start. The last thing we all need is problems with a species that can not be reimported

Just my thoughts.

Hybrid breakdown. Has this been documented in darts?

Personally, I think most of the hobby is interested in the animals as having originated in some rainforest somewhere with fascinating color and behavior and that they are still very much wild animals. We should do are best to keep it that way, for our own enjoyment if anything else.